Comments on: Future of the Ribbon library, performance of asp.net, and more… http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/ Me := C99 + C# + (Iron)Ruby + (Iron)Python + BSD + Arch Linux + GNOME + Algorithmic + A.I. Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:43:57 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: debackerl http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-346 debackerl Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:43:57 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-346 As it was told in the post, linode is my web hoster, but the benchmarks have been run in Innotek which has nothing to do with a linode. It was just a VM on a desktop computer (note: linode uses Xen and UML). Some purists would never run benchmarks in a VM, even if everything else is idle, but that was quick & fast for me, and virtualization becomes the norm for the server space. As it was told in the post, linode is my web hoster, but the benchmarks have been run in Innotek which has nothing to do with a linode. It was just a VM on a desktop computer (note: linode uses Xen and UML).

Some purists would never run benchmarks in a VM, even if everything else is idle, but that was quick & fast for me, and virtualization becomes the norm for the server space.

]]> By: rektide http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-345 rektide Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:39:35 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-345 ERr nginx not lighttpd. Still your results are scaring me. ERr nginx not lighttpd. Still your results are scaring me.

]]> By: rektide http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-344 rektide Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:38:39 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-344 You compared a small slice of a linode host to a standalone box? At least use the same system. I'd wager that something isnt setup right if you are getting so many dropped requests. What lighttpd did you use? I'd be interested in seeing your lighttpd's fastcgi setup. You compared a small slice of a linode host to a standalone box? At least use the same system. I’d wager that something isnt setup right if you are getting so many dropped requests. What lighttpd did you use? I’d be interested in seeing your lighttpd’s fastcgi setup.

]]> By: nick http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-332 nick Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:45:43 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-332 >Regarding the development, it is now possible to place the title of a group at >the left, right, or top in addition to the original bottom position. Personally, I >think that the left position is great because it helps make the overall bar thinner >(and we tend to have wide screens nowadays). You can see the result below: Please Laurent, never ever display western text vertically like that. My eyes!!! >Regarding the development, it is now possible to place the title of a group at
>the left, right, or top in addition to the original bottom position. Personally, I
>think that the left position is great because it helps make the overall bar thinner
>(and we tend to have wide screens nowadays). You can see the result below:

Please Laurent, never ever display western text vertically like that. My eyes!!!

]]> By: debackerl http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-308 debackerl Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:28:10 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-308 It was a simple hello world, which was reading a request variable. The delay was simulated by a sleep. Your comparison is not really relevant, because you do not necessarily have the same hardware than mine, and it is a VPS. Indeed in a VPS, you never know whan someone else is using the machine. It was a simple hello world, which was reading a request variable. The delay was simulated by a sleep. Your comparison is not really relevant, because you do not necessarily have the same hardware than mine, and it is a VPS. Indeed in a VPS, you never know whan someone else is using the machine.

]]> By: Dude http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-307 Dude Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:12 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-307 The first case seems disappointing for Python. Was database involved in your app? Here is what I get from running PHP Hello World on a 128MB VPS: Document Path: /t1.php Document Length: 10 bytes Concurrency Level: 100 Time taken for tests: 36.694599 seconds Complete requests: 50000 Failed requests: 0 Write errors: 0 Total transferred: 7850157 bytes HTML transferred: 500010 bytes Requests per second: 1362.60 [#/sec] (mean) Time per request: 73.389 [ms] (mean) Time per request: 0.734 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests) Transfer rate: 208.91 [Kbytes/sec] received The first case seems disappointing for Python. Was database involved in your app? Here is what I get from running PHP Hello World on a 128MB VPS:

Document Path: /t1.php
Document Length: 10 bytes

Concurrency Level: 100
Time taken for tests: 36.694599 seconds
Complete requests: 50000
Failed requests: 0
Write errors: 0
Total transferred: 7850157 bytes
HTML transferred: 500010 bytes
Requests per second: 1362.60 [#/sec] (mean)
Time per request: 73.389 [ms] (mean)
Time per request: 0.734 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
Transfer rate: 208.91 [Kbytes/sec] received

]]> By: debackerl http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-301 debackerl Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:48:05 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-301 Tabbed Toolbars is ok, but I would find it strange to write 'TabbedButton', 'TabbedGroup' and so on. Yesterday, at night, I got two ideas: ConciseBar, or CandyBar. Concise: try to put many concepts, options, in a few space, but in a comprehensive manner. Candy: the objective is to have something nice for the end-user, and desirable to use for developers. In addition, the library would have a cool name I think :p Tabbed Toolbars is ok, but I would find it strange to write ‘TabbedButton’, ‘TabbedGroup’ and so on.

Yesterday, at night, I got two ideas: ConciseBar, or CandyBar.

Concise: try to put many concepts, options, in a few space, but in a comprehensive manner.

Candy: the objective is to have something nice for the end-user, and desirable to use for developers. In addition, the library would have a cool name I think :p

]]> By: debackerl http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-300 debackerl Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:29:44 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-300 The objective is to enhance the tool bar concept. Now you could take the groups and put them in a side bar, top-down. I could be a clever idea if you work with portrait document (i.e. you want as must height as possible to display the page, while border are unused). About replacing the menu bar, I'm mixed. I have written an hundred pages using Word 2007, and I never missed the menu bar, and my document was not trivial, it was full of equations, styling, citations, table of contents, etc. But the objective with our library was to allow the developer to offer a menu bar, at the left of tabs (i.e. taking less space). Of course, if we put groups in a side bar, the tabs would have to move to the side bar as well, leaving the menu bar lonely. The objective is to enhance the tool bar concept. Now you could take the groups and put them in a side bar, top-down. I could be a clever idea if you work with portrait document (i.e. you want as must height as possible to display the page, while border are unused).

About replacing the menu bar, I’m mixed. I have written an hundred pages using Word 2007, and I never missed the menu bar, and my document was not trivial, it was full of equations, styling, citations, table of contents, etc. But the objective with our library was to allow the developer to offer a menu bar, at the left of tabs (i.e. taking less space). Of course, if we put groups in a side bar, the tabs would have to move to the side bar as well, leaving the menu bar lonely.

]]> By: Mike http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-299 Mike Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:57:51 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-299 Call it "tabbed toolbars"; that way, it's clear that it's a combination of standard UI elements. I think part of the motivation for Microsoft to adopt "ribbons" was to have a UI element that they could assert ownership over; I wouldn't be surprised if they sued over this. Ribbons also have a number of other undesirable properties. If you want a ribbon-like UI element without the risk of infringing, why not use something like the Impress sidebar in OpenOffice? It also consists of different panels containing selections related to the current document, and given our widescreen displays, a vertical element is probably better anyway. In no case would I get rid of the menu bar. A simple, well-organized menu bar is enormously useful. Call it “tabbed toolbars”; that way, it’s clear that it’s a combination of standard UI elements. I think part of the motivation for Microsoft to adopt “ribbons” was to have a UI element that they could assert ownership over; I wouldn’t be surprised if they sued over this. Ribbons also have a number of other undesirable properties.

If you want a ribbon-like UI element without the risk of infringing, why not use something like the Impress sidebar in OpenOffice? It also consists of different panels containing selections related to the current document, and given our widescreen displays, a vertical element is probably better anyway.

In no case would I get rid of the menu bar. A simple, well-organized menu bar is enormously useful.

]]> By: debackerl http://debackerl.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/future-of-the-ribbon-library-performance-of-aspnet-and-more/#comment-298 debackerl Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:49:20 +0000 http://debackerl.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-298 (why the hell do I always forget to write my ideas in a complete way) Of course I meant fast, efficient exceptions, with resuming/recovering support. In .NET, exception are a last resort option, only used for programmatic errors. It was more an academic idea, than an idea for a next project :D My real plan is just to embed mono inside nginx if it is possible to use thread pool inside nginx. Indeed, nginx has the infrastructure for threads, but do not implement it as far as I know. In any case, my database project is more important in my TODO list; because the performance of XSP is ok for most usages. (why the hell do I always forget to write my ideas in a complete way) Of course I meant fast, efficient exceptions, with resuming/recovering support. In .NET, exception are a last resort option, only used for programmatic errors. It was more an academic idea, than an idea for a next project :D My real plan is just to embed mono inside nginx if it is possible to use thread pool inside nginx. Indeed, nginx has the infrastructure for threads, but do not implement it as far as I know. In any case, my database project is more important in my TODO list; because the performance of XSP is ok for most usages.

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